Igniting the CEO Within | Mark McFatridge + Dawn Baumgartner

KEY THEMES

• The Necessity of Curiosity and Lifelong Learning

• Servant Leadership

• The Danger of Identity Misalignment

• Moving from Awareness to Acceptance

• Holding Opposing Truths

• Embracing the "Good Miss"

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TRANSCRIPT

Mark McFatridge: Welcome to the Igniting the CEO Within Podcast, where we interview successful high level professionals to discover lessons they've learned throughout their career that can help ignite that CEO within you. I'm Mark McFatridge and I'll be your host for the next 15 minutes or so. Our show is sponsored by Quad, a nationwide community of CEOs and entrepreneurs. Quad has developed Launchpad, which offers an opportunity for experienced executive coaches to become licensed circle directors. After completing the Launchpad program, you'll lead your own peer advisory circles helping other CEOs and entrepreneurs excel in their professional and personal lives while providing a community of support, accountability, and challenge. If you'd like to learn more, go to quadcircle.com.

I am so pumped to get to hang out with Dawn Baumgartner. She's a business coach and strategic consultant. She's also the founder of Cornerstone Coaching and Consulting out of St. Louis, Missouri. Dawn, thanks for hanging out with me today.

Dawn Baumgartner:

Thank you, Mark. So excited to be here and love getting to listen to all of the incredible things that you've been able to do, but also what you're doing now with Quad. What an awesome community.

Mark McFatridge:

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I'm pumped. I'm pumped. So all right, I don't want to waste any more time because you've got so much stuff you're going to drop on us. It's going to be cool. So look, you have had a really interesting career. We share a banking background, but more so you've started coaching leaders and businesses and so forth. And so over your career, you've seen some really amazing leaders and then some that maybe weren't as amazing. If you looked at some traits that separate the really good ones from the not so great ones, what would some of those traits be?

Dawn Baumgartner:

Yeah, great question. I love it and I really love that we can learn from both, right? Yeah, for sure. I always say it doesn't matter where I am. I'm like, I am actively learning right now. I am learning exactly what I do not want to do or what I'm like, okay, I want to know more about that person or I want to spend more time learning what they do. And I love that. I think that being a learner is a big part of that.

When I think about leaders that I've been able to sit with or sit under or learn from, it has really been that. Or even just observe and people that I get to spend time now with building up what they're excited about. One of the things that I think is that they are just forever learners. They have a growth mindset and they want to know what other people know and they want to understand where other people are coming from or at least have more insight about that. So I think, again, growth minded curiosity. I think curiosity is a beautiful gateway to just about anything. You can ask the most fascinating question and get more information even if you are thinking, "Really, I need to know where that's coming from because I don't ever want to hear that again."

Mark McFatridge:

Right.

Dawn Baumgartner:

"I need to understand more about why you chose to say that out loud." And I think the biggest though truly is just that servant leader. When I see incredible leaders, they are servant leaders. They understand the reverse org chart, this concept of just really that leadership. We sit here and we serve the people that we choose to have a part of our organization and our clients. And so I think when we look at servant leaders, those are probably the top three criteria that I think about when I think about incredible leaders. And when I think about leaders that maybe aren't hitting the mark right now or who are missing it or are struggling to find their footing, that's exactly what I think.

I think that something's gone on, it's currently going on, maybe they're not allowing enough space for it. Maybe they are not giving themselves the audience with somebody that can support them through that. And so unfortunately they're choosing to lead out of the bankruptcy that they have currently going on in their leadership or in their life. And I think there's just a very big crossover between personal and professional and to pretend like there's not is oftentimes where you see that when you see getting wonky.

Mark McFatridge:

Yeah. Well, you've given us a lot to unpack there. This is going to be fun. So the curiosity thing I love and the constant learning, I usually rephrase it as like pocketing of experiences. So in my right pocket, I'll put the things that I witness somebody doing that I think are really good and I'm like, "Oh, I need to use that later." In my left pocket, I put the stuff that I don't ever want to do again. And so I kind of keep those going. But how do you develop that spirit of curiosity in leaders? Because I think you can seemingly get to a level, whatever that is, and then you're like, "I got it figured out. " But that's not true. So how do you keep that passion for curiosity in somebody?

Dawn Baumgartner:

Yeah. I think the first part of it is, is really helping somebody become completely aware of who they are. Oftentimes, again, I talked about that leader that maybe isn't leading the way that they would want and that anybody that's around them would want for them or from them. They're not aware of where they are right now. They're not self-aware of what's happening. They see themselves differently than what other people see and they're probably burying some things that for whatever reason they believe can't come out or that aren't enough.

And so I think it really kind of starts with that whole idea of their identity. Where right now are you just lying to yourself or trying to overcome or compensate for something? And so frequently when I step in with leaders, and we see this come out in a lot of different ways. I mean, this can look like overwhelm. This can look like somebody who is just, it looks like they're killing it, but if you see them after hours or you talk with family or you're close enough to that inside circle, I always say it's such a privilege to get to see behind the scenes and behind the curtain with somebody.

And when you get that, you're like, "Wow, that's literally taking you out. That's heavier than you make it look." And over time, that's what squishes people. They crumble. And so when I'm invited in, maybe when somebody's like, "Hey, I liked you. I don't think that you're not going to make me do anything I don't want to do, or maybe you're going to help me see something." It's really just about helping them mirror what's really going on. Well, do you know why you believe that? And just really allowing them the freedom to say, "I don't know, that's the way it works." And I'm like, "I mean, is it the way it works? Does it have to work that way? Do you want it to work that way?" A lot of times I'm talking to the CEOs or the owners and I'm like, "Just out of curiosity, I mean, who said?

Who told you that? " I mean, you're in charge now, right? Cool story. We could shift. We could make an adjustment. You're not so big that that can't happen. And so I think a lot of it starts with just misalignment. I mean, really, I coached to that idea of we have to be in alignment to be able to be intentional to get into that momentum cycle that we want, that aim framework and they're just misaligned with who they really are.

They're in total alignment with what they've become over all these years as they've climbed and as everything's been going in a certain direction, but they're not in alignment with who they were really designed to be or who they really wanted to be and the gap just keeps getting bigger and bigger and they believe the lie that they can't go back and fill it differently. And so I just really get to create a safe space where we can have those conversations. While we're solving the business problems that are showing up, we're also going, "Hey, but what about this? Why is this such an issue and how did it get here?" And so we really dig just to the root and that takes time and it also takes a choice.

Some leaders don't want to do that, but I talk about the idea that you can be aware of something and not accept it and not be ready to take action on it, or you can be aware of something and then be like, "You know what? I accept that. That's real. I did that. " And then you can still decide not to take action on it. I hold space for like, it's okay. You cannot be aware of something, go to those super cool workshops and seminars, show up at one of ours park and then go right to action. That's where people miss the gap. No, no dude, you have to decide how you accept that for you.

And so I think just creating that space and helping call things out and say things. And I mean, just earlier this week, I had an iron sharpened iron conversation with somebody that is a client of mine and I knew I was not going to like what I got back because I knew I was like, I have just really ruffled some feathers. And when I did get that message back and we communicate through an app called Voxer and she boxed back, you could tell. I mean, she was like, "I'm kind of irritated." And I'm like, "That's awesome. Thank you for saying that. Congratulations. You're welcome. I'm glad."

And I'm so glad because that means you've moved from awareness to acceptance and you're irritated because you're accepting that it's real and now we can do something about it. And we did and she's already in a different space on Wednesday.

Mark McFatridge:

That's cool. That's awesome. Okay. Let me ask, I'm going to go a different direction than I thought I was going to go. So in a lot of personality assessments, for example, like predictive index and MPO are two that I think of that have when you get your report generated back, they have a, here is your personality, here is the core of who you are, and then here is the adapted personality that you're living today in your role. And I'm likely screwing all that up, but that's how my little mind breaks it down.

Dawn Baumgartner:

Yeah, it's good.

Mark McFatridge:

Oftentimes they are completely misaligned, right? Like, "This is who I am, but here's how I think I have to be in this role." Let me ask you a question for somebody to be at peace, I don't know, that sounds creepy, but at peace with themselves, do they have to align? Can people survive and lead productive lives that are meaningful and they're comfortable if those two things are misaligned dramatically?

Dawn Baumgartner:

Yeah. So I mean, again, the last word I think changes the answer completely, right? So the question is, can they do that if they're misaligned dramatically or drastically or whatever? And gosh, I would say sure, but for how long? And what does the quality of that look like? And how many people still want to hang out with you like long game, right? What do those relationships look like with your spouse and your kids and the other partners in your organization or you know what I mean? Or those kinds of things.

And so I think the reality is that a lot of people do it and they do it for a really long period of time and they make it look really good and the social story and that season that face is good. And I think it's one of the things we see oftentimes in all of the people in entertainment, right? We're like, "Oh my gosh, it's amazing." And then you're like, "Wait, they committed suicide?"

Mark McFatridge:

Right. Yeah.

Dawn Baumgartner:

"What?" And so there's something just very lonely about not knowing yourself and continuing to get up every day and just accept the fact that I'm choosing to not be who I know I want to be. And really, and you talked about that and we talk about that a lot because when you are in a natural state, your natural state, right, your adaptive state is the state where you feel like you're being observed and you feel like you're being like somebody is watching you and they want you to do something and it is the state where you cannot be creative anymore. I mean, I just encourage, like when I talk to my visionaries, I'm like, how are you supposed to bring vision for the rest of your team to be able to deliver on if you can't be in a creative head space? You got where you are because you were doing that, right?

And so we just got to come back to that. We don't have to abandon everything. It doesn't mean we have to be like, you have t-shirts made. It's like, I jacked it up. No, it's just some subtle shifts. It's just little shifts. You're not that far away, even if the numbers look that way, you're really probably not that far away because it is a survival instinct to be able to be in our skin.

Mark McFatridge:

Yeah, that's really cool.That was fun. Yeah, I like that. And then I think if you project that, if you as a leader are so misaligned between who you are at your core and who you are representing in your role, that's going to flow down to throughout your entire organization. Most people are going to be misaligned in that same area, right?

Dawn Baumgartner:

Right, because you're compensating. And when we think about compensatory skills and compensatory behaviors, again, it sounds like a good thing like, "Oh, it's okay. I'll just handle that. " Nope, we'll just do it like this. And we're like, "Wait, what are we compensating for? " We're compensating for shifting sand because it's not going to be enough one day and then we're going to have to compensate more and compensate more. And then this is where, again, a lot of leaders who are like, "Ah, I need a new career. That's the problem." And I'm like, "Cool story, but you're taking you with you. Could we solve a couple of those problems on the way?" Or solve a couple of those things where you're just living beneath your means a little bit along the way.

And so because when you as a leader step in and everyone else has to compensate for the areas where there's a gap for you, you don't realize it and it feels like they're caring for you and the organization, but the truth is we're requiring other people to live in an adaptive space for long and that's where you start to see turnover and things like that.

I do think we have to be careful because in the world that we live in today, people don't do what I thought I was going to do. I thought, "I'm going to graduate from high school and then go to college and I'm going to get my one job and I'm going to stay there because I'm that old people. " That's what we used to do.

And when I didn't do that, I was like, "Oh, something's wrong. I clearly don't know who I am. I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing." And what I realized was no, all of those threads, all of those things that I did made me who I am, all of the life experiences I had because I did mismanage it, because I did try to lead from an adaptive space, because I did try to compensate for the gaps that other people wanted me to fill because I wasn't okay with me and I wasn't living the truest version of me. I bankrupted my family and our daughter and my own world and yet there was the other side to it and now I'm like, "Oh, it's okay This is where we are now and now we get to go back and we're the best teachers of the people who are in our places." And so it's what I love about getting to do what I do now is that we just get to go back and we can make some subtle shifts. It doesn't have to happen overnight.

Mark McFatridge:

That's cool. Yeah. I think to kind of put a bow on that component of it, it's self-awareness changes over time, right? Who you are as a person, as a human, whatever evolves as you are more curious, as you experience more things, as you are like, "Oh, I didn't even know that existed. That's really cool. I like that. " Whereas if you had never explored that, if you were never curious, you would've never come across that and know that that's something that you really enjoy and that that's become a part of you, right?

Dawn Baumgartner:

Yes.

Mark McFatridge:

This has been a blast. All right, I'm going to wrap it up with what's one, I don't know, maybe a couple more questions. One question. What's one thing that you wish that 21-year-old Dawn knew that you've learned over the years?

Dawn Baumgartner:

I think that you could hold two opposing things at the same time that it's okay for me to be sad and for me to have hope, that it's okay for me to be wrong and believe that it can be right or that I can make a different decision, that it's okay to fail and also be keeping my eyes on what success would look like. I think that the ability to hold two things, I don't think we believe that enough and it puts us in a position that we think, "Oh my gosh, I'm so wrong." Or, "I just failed on that. " Well, congratulations. You know what not to do. Now what, right?

How will you ... I got to be at an event this weekend where John Maxwell was and got to listen to him speak and every time I get to sit where he's speaking, I think, "Will this be the last time?" I mean, he's poured into us for so many years, Mark, when will he stop doing that? I mean, he deserves it, but he said, "We have to keep failure and success close." And he said, "There's a difference between a good miss and a bad miss." And I thought, "Okay, yeah, it's okay. Oh yeah, I missed. Okay, great. What do I need to do? Let me go do it again and let's not miss this time. Let's miss differently this time." And so I think that is probably what I would want 21 year old me to know.

Mark McFatridge:

I love it. I love it. Thanks for sharing that, but thanks for hanging out. Hey, do me a favor. Would you share with our audience what a typical engagement with you looks like and how can people get ahold of you?

Dawn Baumgartner:

Yeah, thanks, Mark. So I am blessed to get to do a lot of different things, but one of my favorite things to do is work with my one-to-one coaching clients and some of the ways we've talked about today and I love getting to just connect with them. So we do that over a three month engagement because I think a lot can happen over 12 or 13 weeks and there's the importance of that consistency and that usually looks like meeting once a week. They also have around the clock Voxer support with me so we can keep that conversation going between appointments because nothing really happens in a silo and they're going to hear something and want to practice it and then we need to go back with feedback. So we have that. And then the other thing that I get to do that I love is it's not fair for that just to be held up based on the number of hours in a week and me being able to only help a certain number of people at a time.

So I do some one to many events in St. Louis, but also around the country and get to just do some speaking engagements where I can teach some of the same concepts in like two to four hour blocks of some different events that I have. So some workshops and events, we get to do that as well. And we're doing one of those this week and so it's super fun to do that. And some of those are online and some of those are in person. So those are probably my two favorite ways to connect with people. I also have a group coaching program in case somebody's like, "I like you, but I don't know if I want to have you that much in my business." Myself and 11 of my friends will hang out with you, right? 11 people I don't know yet, right? So we can do that, but it's based around just offering accountability and holding people capable of what they say that they want to do.

And so it's around goals and achievement and where do you want to go? So productivity and also just personality and things like that. So I love that. And best way to connect is really at coachcornerstone.com. I have a Du Life Together newsletter again if you're thinking, "I don't know if I want you to talk to me about a whole bunch of stuff yet, but I kind of want to pay attention." It's a great way to pop on and see that. And so that is out there on coachcornerstone.com as well. Everything's out there and people can find me there and see how they want to participate for you.

Mark McFatridge:

I love it. I love it. Dawn, this has been a blast. Thanks for hanging out.

Dawn Baumgartner:

Yeah. Thank you, Mark. It's been wonderful.

Mark McFatridge:

It has. It has. All right, y'all, we've done it again. We found another amazing leader who was willing to share some insights and nuggets of wisdom. I had a blast talking with Dawn today and know you'll love this episode and many of our others. As a reminder, Igniting the CEO Within is sponsored by Quad, a nationwide community of CEOs and entrepreneurs. Quad has created Launchpad, which provides an opportunity for experienced executive coaches to become licensed circle directors and significantly impact the lives of CEOs and entrepreneurs. To find out more, visit quadcircle.com. Until next time, keep igniting that CEO within you. I'm Mark McFatridge. Thanks for listening.